Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by ActiveSince60s on January 31, 2013 at 16:15

Imagine living in a country where big corporations work hand in glove with law enforcement agencies to spy on peaceful protests. No this is not China, North Korea or Iran. This is the United States of America.


 According to a Congressional Research Service report from 2003 the FBI has a dual mission of protecting US national security and combating criminal activities. Its criminal investigative priorities also include civil rights violations. Yet FBI documents recently obtained by the Partnership for Civil Justice Fund (PCJF) reveal how the bureau has acted in a way that totally undermines this claim to be protecting US citizens from civil rights violations.

 Mara Verheyden-Hilliard, Executive Director of the Partnership for Civil Justice Fund (PCJF) has called this collusion ''police-statism'' and stated:

 “These documents show that the FBI and the Department of Homeland Security [DHS]are treating protests against the corporate and banking structure of America as potential criminal and terrorist activity. These documents also show these federal agencies functioning as a de facto intelligence arm of Wall Street and Corporate America.”

 The heavily redacted documents obtained by the (PCJF) through a freedom of information request reveal how the FBI has regarded the Occupy Wall Street Movement as a criminal and terrorist threat from its inception. The documents, which include reports from various agents during 2011, clearly show that the Occupy Wall Street movement was engaged in peaceful protests and distanced itself from any kind of political violence.

 This active collaboration between branches of state and the security arms of the banks/big corporations is very disturbing and raises questions about the type of society America has become. The mainstream media both on the domestic and international stage portray America as one of the world's leading democracies where the rights of citizens are protected and cherished by the state that is supposed to represent their interests.

 The documents reveal how this collusion takes place under the banner of the Domestic Security Alliance (DSAC). Its reports are prepared by FBI and DHS agents for corporate security officers of the banks and big corporations. The purpose of these reports being to,''document the Occupy Wall Street movement'' and to ''raise awareness concerning this type of criminal activity''. Most of the reports have the following warning attached to them,''Recipients are reminded DSAC LIRS [reports] contain sensitive information meant for use primarily within the corporate security community. Such messages shall not be released to the media, the general public...''.

 Let's just look at one example from the documents which reveal the sinister and anti-democratic nature of this collusion between the FBI, DHS and corporate America: the 2 November 2011 protest at Oakland port. The DSAC coordinated a whole host of state agencies to monitor this peaceful protest including the Naval Criminal Investigative Service. Agents were used to infiltrate the planning meetings of Occupy Oakland to identify how ''significant a threat'' the protest would be.

 On 2 November 2011 Occupy Oakland organised a general strike that temporarily shut down Oakland port. 7-10,000 protesters used human body chains to prevent longshoremen and trucks from entering and exiting the port. This forced the port authorities to call off the evening shift.

 The various reports covering this protest reveal the fear of the establishment that the protests might receive active support from the unions and the wider community. Anything that might hinder the potential profits of corporate America is seen as a serious threat. An analysis of the Oakland port protest by one agent sums up this fear of corporate America rather well.

 ''The protesters actions shut down the port of Oakland for 14 hours. If this movement were to spread to the port of Long Beach, the second busiest port in the United States, the disruption of port operations resulting in cargo reaching their destination late could have much more serious effects on the supply chain in the United States''.

 The reports contained in the heavily redacted documents were produced during the violent state crackdown on the Occupy Wall Street movement during the autumn of 2011. They reveal the fear of the American state and its masters in big business at ordinary citizens exercising their democratic rights to protest against the enormous social and economic inequality in America. Will there be any government action to stop this abuse of citizen's rights? I fear not. It's just one more example of how America is sleepwalking into becoming a police state.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Ecal z on February 2, 2013 at 7:09

as long as there are people thinking Occupy, theres Occupy...so, its still alive, microscopically, but alive...somewhere in the vast conglomeration of worried bloggers... 

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by ActiveSince60s on February 2, 2013 at 12:17

Yes, True enough. I hate to be one to say [to the average Occupy supporter], "I told you so', but from the first days of everyone chatting over at the livestream chatrooms, I was warning that the Governments and Intelligence agencies with the Police would plot to destroy the movement.....because of the threat to them our Truth presented. Most were  young and enthusiastic and had not been in prior political / social change battles as old hands like myself have. Sure enough, Occupy was infiltrated, spied upon and set up. Heavy handed police and intelligence agency actions [now documented] were used to shut it down. It is not dead, but very quiescent in a time when things are getting worse everywhere - not better. Time to try again, but learn from the mistakes. Openness and horizontal structures have their pluses and their minuses. The object is to effect the needed changes.....or we all perish soon on this tiny Planet run by psychopaths.

A tiger doesn't change its stipes and those who have been running banster operations for centureis and easily tracable as the promoters of all wars and most covert operations and political assassinations; those who have stolen our freedoms and are spying on us endlessly while pumping out propaganda about everything from 'history' to what is important in life are still very much in power. Occupy was IMHO correct in their analysis and in NOT participating in the corrupt system; however, it was naive in what the reaction would be and how to deal with that reaction without becoming demoralized. Time to rise up again, with some of the old methods and some new ones - tried and true throughout history in dealing with tyranny. No need to change the main thread of being non-violent...in fact, essential. Look to the Civil Rights Movement in the USA or South Africa for some examples. There are others, as well. it will not be easy, as the banksters who own the politicians, police, courts, media et al. know if Occupy succeeds they not only loose power, but go to prison and will fight like hell - and they will NOT play fair. Those who do not learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them......

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Ecal z on February 2, 2013 at 21:17

english is not my strongest skill...is spanish...

true, non-violent actions are needed, but first the people, those who support the system, need to help those in trouble to do something better than what we have right now...in some examples, i admire what the Tea-party is doing, they get together, discuss things they can actually do, and specially have support from the most effective parts of any civil movement, the economic one, meaning that they(tea party supporters) have money and have successfully done something with their intelligence rather than criticize the system to the core, which in some movements, thats what they do, althou is not as easy as it sound, because we dont always have the same privileged family or support to really help us to do or do not the things we should do in order to really have a grasp in the peoples mind...

in order words, this is not like the 60, were segregation was the a human rights fight, no, this is a global economic movement that only those who now it, investigate more, and those who just know things think its an indirect problem like wars and any other racial tension and gender tension, and will just talk and/or chat lightly about it, but not like if there is a really directly consecuence to it like there was when there were the segregation laws, were blacks had no right to vote as woman and natives...

today the problems continue to a lesser degree as it was before, and thats what people dont seem to understand,  that there its still a problem instead of a solution...

because poverty is a global problem, not just nationally, and as those who study, do everything they can in order to be in the top of tops, well, they, those with houses, professional education, powerful and not so much friends and family arent gonna help a universal economic movement because they wont lose what they have, same as those who are working for it, so that leave us almost naked in the eye of that big brother that has no soul but a mechanic core that eats those who dont follow their rules and laws, and regulations made to protect the interest of those who paid for it, not with blood, no, they are in wars and are taught to listen and shut off otherwise thell be seen or called traitor and will face possible treason charges because thats the law, same as the segregation one, same as the ones made to conquer and write the history of champions and tell the people whose the bad one and whose the good one and follow only the good one in order to achieve a status in this already poisoned society we live called the globalization of our work, so the privileged ones live and the rest survive...

same as any other system in the world, being capitalistic, socialist, communist, tribal or martian, the ones with power will make it almost impossible for those who work and want to live with dignity live with dignity...

and then the machine of indoctrination changes the perception of things through what we see as cultural factors and morals...the man marrying a man or the woman a woman...

to me its all in the eye of the beholder, cause a man indecently kissing a woman is the same as a man indecently kissing a man in public, and thats what some people dont like, or like and think its the end of a decent society, but then those who crucify their so called pureness turn around when we have global sociao-economic problems and alienate to a place where those with the most expensive education have the shiniest things we can think of, because the family worked to be in the higher standard of living and has the money to educate their children the ways of understanding the use of their intellectual tool in order to achieve everything they want in life, different from those who cant think and are worried about what to do, instead of what to achieve...

ActiveSince60s said:

Yes, True enough. I hate to be one to say [to the average Occupy supporter], "I told you so', but from the first days of everyone chatting over at the livestream chatrooms, I was warning that the Governments and Intelligence agencies with the Police would plot to destroy the movement.....because of the threat to them our Truth presented. Most were  young and enthusiastic and had not been in prior political / social change battles as old hands like myself have. Sure enough, Occupy was infiltrated, spied upon and set up. Heavy handed police and intelligence agency actions [now documented] were used to shut it down. It is not dead, but very quiescent in a time when things are getting worse everywhere - not better. Time to try again, but learn from the mistakes. Openness and horizontal structures have their pluses and their minuses. The object is to effect the needed changes.....or we all perish soon on this tiny Planet run by psychopaths.

A tiger doesn't change its stipes and those who have been running banster operations for centureis and easily tracable as the promoters of all wars and most covert operations and political assassinations; those who have stolen our freedoms and are spying on us endlessly while pumping out propaganda about everything from 'history' to what is important in life are still very much in power. Occupy was IMHO correct in their analysis and in NOT participating in the corrupt system; however, it was naive in what the reaction would be and how to deal with that reaction without becoming demoralized. Time to rise up again, with some of the old methods and some new ones - tried and true throughout history in dealing with tyranny. No need to change the main thread of being non-violent...in fact, essential. Look to the Civil Rights Movement in the USA or South Africa for some examples. There are others, as well. it will not be easy, as the banksters who own the politicians, police, courts, media et al. know if Occupy succeeds they not only loose power, but go to prison and will fight like hell - and they will NOT play fair. Those who do not learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them......

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by ActiveSince60s on February 3, 2013 at 10:43

Segregation/Civil Rights was ONLY ONE of MANY changes demanded in the 60s! In fact, I think the anti-Establishment and anti-War components were more central. I was certainly part of a group that wanted nothing less than a total change [much the same as Occupy, IMO]. A complete paradigm shift. A complete change from top-down oligarchic rule to bottom-up democracy. A total change as to who benefits from the 'system' [now only the rich and powerful] to a near equal benefit for all. An awareness of the damage we are doing to others and the environment - a replacement of greed and me-ism with altruism. Etc. While I was an active part of the Civil Rights movement, I was also active in all the above and more: anti-War/militarism movement; womens movement; end to punishment for 'crimes' with no victim; anti-prison-industrial complex movement; environmental movement; anti-consumer movement and much more which were the demands of the 60s and early 70s. It was a total change demanded at that time....Occupy was a revival in a new form....many of its ideas as to structure were brilliant; others were doomed to fail, IMHO. Now, they/we need to learn from the past and present and keep those things that worked past and present and cast off those that do not. Forward. It is us or them....it is for survival, freedom, justice!

Few realize that banksters throughout history have been the promoters of wars [for profit]; or slavery [for profit]; of exploitation [for profit]; the main 'clients' of all intelligence agencies [for control of opponents and threats to profits]; of empires [for profits], etc.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by ActiveSince60s on February 3, 2013 at 13:11

"If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issuance of their currencies, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all their prosperity until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered."
~President Thomas Jefferson, letter to Treasury Secretary Albert Gallatin (1802)

“Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will.”
― Frederick Douglass

"The day we see truth and do not speak is the day we begin to die." - Martin Luther King

"Those that own America ought to rule it!" John Jay, First Supreme Court Chief Justice

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Ecal z on February 3, 2013 at 23:24

true, true...the 60 were an overall movement for change...as you quoted, from civil rights to war and even some sense of a systematic reform...if not the abolition of the system...

a system created from the roots of imperialism and colonialism, controlled mainly by banks and the powerful, as you quoted...

and in regards of todays view, is still somewhere similar, and in a sense is even worst, when we see how we have lost, in some degrees our rights; freedom of expression, privacy, etc...and we have let the goverment do it; some resist and fight, some win with support and solidarity like one of our true and dramatic leader, Aaron Swartz, who represents this emotional generation...a person with a big hearth as a big brain, that couldnt handle this oppressive world no more...a sad story...

but there still those who fight and resist, in the end, life is the pursuit of happiness and how we can make it happen without any kind of violence involve or a sense of negativity...

sound kind of naive, at least is optimistic...

hope those who gather again, in present and future movements and manifestations, understand the power of communication and respect among everything around...we sometimes come with different perceptions and ideas of life, the point is to find a common ground and work for it...and thats why we have General Assemblies and it works with a Direct Democracy counsensus, because everyone represents a valuable point in the process and also everyone can understand the point being made with information and education, education made for the people by the people, and if its slow, so be it, we are gathered to change ourselves, the world and even time, so time is not a factor, unless on has to work and then, well, one has to do it, life also does not stop by change, life changes by changing...:)

and about banks, well, examples of alternatives banks or examples of sustainable societies off the grid can make those elitist bank to respect others decision instead of regulating our lifes by the plethora of laws that we have when we're just building our future...applicable only to banks...they are the ones the government has to regulate and restrict much of their movements...and if its not the government, then its our job to do it, the creativity begins on how...and the functionality of it.

ActiveSince60s said:

"If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issuance of their currencies, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all their prosperity until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered."
~President Thomas Jefferson, letter to Treasury Secretary Albert Gallatin (1802)

“Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will.”
― Frederick Douglass

"The day we see truth and do not speak is the day we begin to die." - Martin Luther King

"Those that own America ought to rule it!" John Jay, First Supreme Court Chief Justice

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by ActiveSince60s on February 4, 2013 at 7:52

The 'governments' will never control the banks. The Banks control the government everywhere - and a small Oligarchy controls the Banks [and most everything else]. Sadly, not much has changed since Feudal times and before that. I call the current system neo-Feudalism. There was a brief period of a move for more democracy and equality in the 19th and 20th Centuries in some countries - now all gone. The excuse to remove them in large steps were always false-flag operations, such as 911 and others; the slow creep toward the neo-fascism of today was long planned and sought and gained by the elites to roll back the gains of the General Populace over those decades. Consumerism and propaganda made people lazy to protect the small gains they had...and look what has happened. The powers that be will not give up anything. It must be demanded. Occupy had the correct analysis, IMO, and some clever ideas for novel types of action - but ALL work can't be leaderless and ALL structure horizontal. It needs to be mixed and it needs to be seen as a longterm [several year or few decade] struggle. If Occupy dies and is not just dormant now - and if nothing similar replaces it, I fear for the Planet and all political systems. The US and UK are poised to become full Police States with Corporate Fascism - and I'm talking soon. It has already begun and most refuse to see it like frogs slowly being boiled. I think most in Occupy did see it. So what happened. They, I assume, didn't expect to be beaten and pepper sprayed so much - they thought a few months and voila the Revolution! Never was that way and won't be this time. The entrenched powers are ruthless and will even kill to maintain their position...will certainly arrest and set people up for false arrest. They will do anything it takes to keep their money and power and corrupt system. But the People have made progress against them before and can again....in fact, we must or we  and the entire ecosystem will shortly perish. I only think the Occupy 'model' needs some minor adjustment and I don't want to dictate it - nor can I. I only want to point out that by studying what worked and did not work in the Civil Rights Movement or anti-Vietnam Movement or choose your historical Movement that made progress - you can learn what needs to be added or dropped from the current Occupy model. It need not look exactly like any movement before, but some things do NOT change and the opposition has not changed one tiny bit. As I and many for centuries have said 'Those who do not learn the lessons of history, are doomed to repeat them.' We must win. We must try again. We must not stop. We must prevail. The Planet is depending on us.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Ecal z on February 6, 2013 at 8:41

banks controlling the government, yes, i may agree it happens in any capitalistic system, don't think that banks controlling governments applies to any dictatorial or totalitarian system, being from the left or right...althou, we, the regular people, the people with no ruling power nor positional power, have to alienate or made other kinds of examples, experiments and collectives or cooperatives that will give us our modest independence from those brainwashing system we have lived and we have been enslaved from the times we have document them...

not an easy task, not a one day struggle, nor a year, a lifetime if one is committed to the cause, and not a cause that will make us lose our creativity and touch with what matter in life, and that, is the real task...to find it...again...so thats why i also admire people like you(active since the 60) cause for people to be active since the 60 to todays economic pandemonium of social experiments and technological dependency, one has to be really be strong not to lose the head thinking about a solution that can only be achieved by a collective, in a individualistic society...and that's the sad part...that there's not many people really there for others, but for themselves...for many reasons...

...people sometimes think that the societies problems are made by the system, and that creates the problems of individuals, so whose the one doing the problem and whose receiving it...? others think that an utopia is a scam, and people profit from it...

so it goes around that, one just has to alienate and do ones work with or without those who share the same ways of perception and goals...within or without other kinds of help, in order to support ones paraphernalia of today's way of life...:)

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by ActiveSince60s on February 7, 2013 at 10:28

Fascist dictatorship regimes have banksters up front and central. In fact, it is the prefered system by most banksters - why they are pushing the USA and Europe in that direction again....

Money, power and greed run all types of systems except a REAL democratic socialist or more 'tribal' or true anarchistic structures [which only work on small scales, IMO].

Few realize the level of propaganda in the developed world, today. It is so omnipresent most don't even see it, as fish are unaware they are in water and we surrounded by air.

Not only have I watched the political/social battles with the 'elites' since the 1960s, my parents were political activists too and fully informed me about the similar events they witnessed going back to the 1910s and 1920s. As a student of history, I'm well aware of this from the beginning of the American 'experiment' and for the past few thousand years. It was NOT always this way as anyone can convince themselves if they read Rene Eisler's great book The Chalice and the Sword about just this...an earlier time when there was not rule by the powerful; no domination paradigm - but communal rule; a cooperation paradigm and even equality between men and women.

I myself, though trained as a scientist [Environmental primarily] have worked full time [at times] and part-time all my life researching what I call Deep Politics or Parapolitics [the political forces you are not supposed to see - the purposely hidden political forces and their actions]. I have a few major foci - the JFK assassination, the RFK an MLK assassinations, Gladio [if you don't know what that is and you live in Europe, you're long overdue!] and 9-11/7-7 et al. I'm very aware of covert operations, secret false-flag ops, police and intelligence spying and propaganda, government overthrows, murders made to look like suicides by the thousands, lone-nut or 'terrorist' killings really done by the powers that be to keep the Sheeple under control with fear [the latest War OF (not on) Terror is the newest invention - for wars - endless wars for money and control.

We can end this. it will not be a 'cake-walk' and that is where Occupy has stalled, IMO. The analysis was correct, the cause noble and righteous/just....so most figured that a few months of Occupy awakening would start the 'ball rolling' to a change. What it brought was the predictable reaction to destroy Occupy by any means necessary. Regroup. Reorganize. Reply with our ethical standards - not theirs, BUT be well aware of what they will do and how they will do it...they have NOT changed their methods [only the technology] in a few thousand years. True democracy/justice/truth has been hard won [a little] from time to time. At the current time, in most of the World and certainly in the USA/UK/Israel and parts of the EU and Russia/China the ugly head of fascism [a new modern cryptic brand] is on a rapid assent. It threatens not just our freedoms and economic justice/equity, but the entire ecosystem = Gaia. IMO, we have only a window of less than ten years to make the needed changes...after that, you can kiss this Planet and the various political systems on it goodbye after some very ugly death throws.

So, are we up to it or not? Do we have a choice, or not? It will not be easy, but it is possible...just possible and I for one am up for the battle...as I always have been [and have paid DEARLY in my life for it!] Catch your breath and pick up the mantle of change again. The sheeple will notice, as will the oppressors....but we have them outnumbered, even if they have their hands on the levers of power. It can be done with massive civil disobedience and occupy methods [tweaked a wee bit to eliminate the agent provocateurs, spies, and dirty tricks].

Be your dream Occupy. The alternative is too sad and ugly to even contemplate.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Ecal z on February 10, 2013 at 20:20

too radical for my knowledge, although its pure logic...an impartial way to look at things is to know the ideas that cover all minds...from the inside or outside...

the one who obeys, and the one who dies...

and its all in the root of religion, for the masses, to understand individually, the suggestions of preachers...

so my guess is just to forget fear and organize in a matter that will make it even...

to stop the impulses of weakness and front fear by organization and education; teach those hopeless criminal minds that change, within them, is possible, and it is possible to built a way out of poverty with or without help of anyone, but it begins with those affected, those in the ghetto, those mutated minds that were born in violence and thats what they know...even thou poverty its a capitalistic/imperialistic consequence, its time to fix their problems by our work...

easy said, almost impossible to do, when people who help are crucified by those who are in need of them, why? because a mask covers a face, and the face is too broken to be covered by hope...

at the end we are just naked in this, and any other system, even if its a socialist democratic tribal whatever it sounds good for those untrained ears system, and those who know it, wont even be noticed because they are already doing it, so, that force we see in any march, any presidential propaganda, could be well use to do something better than to stare hopeless at one or the few who will ruin their life if they don't obey their judicial system...

and about cover ups and that, its all in the name of the alienated ones who are free to live in what those who live by the rule can have...

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by ActiveSince60s on February 11, 2013 at 9:12

Not sure I fully get your post's point, but NO we are not 'naked' nor powerless - unless we self-cripple ourselves by thinking so. We are as powerful as we want to become. There has been positive change in the world before and in America before - ALWAYS hard won and always fought by those in power. Ever was thus and will be this time as well. In fact, we have no choice...other than the destruction of the Empire and life on Earth.

• ▶ Reply

▶ Reply to Discussion

• ‹ Previous
• 1
• 2
• Next ›
• Page